Latest posts

Re: The Basic Definition

from wserra on 04/18/2015 08:06 PM

perhaps the difference in the definitions has to do with our alternate perceptions.

I don't doubt for a moment that we have different perspectives, nor do I doubt for a moment that one's perspective influences one's opinion.  However, I'm not asking for an opinion, nor have I expressed mine.  I'm asking for a description.  After all, someone on the inside - you describe yourself as "an insider" - should have a pretty good view of that which he is inside.

Let's try this another way.  You write that you are "an insider who has met many good people in the movement".  What movement?  Please don't give me a label - characterize it.  There are good people among the Knights of Columbus, the Shriners, rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, shit-kickers and Methodists.  I can describe to you what characterizes any group, official or unofficial, of which I am an "insider".  Are you saying that you can't?  The only description you've given so far equally fits the Little Sisters of Mercy and the Weathermen.

I pursue this not to give you a hard time.  I am truly interested in hearing about "Freemen on the Land" from someone who has shown himself to be perceptive and good-humored.  As Jesse James said to Judge Roy Bean, don't leave me hangin'.

"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
- David Hume

Re: The Basic Definition

from bmxninja357 on 04/18/2015 06:40 PM

perhaps the difference in the definitions has to do with our alternate perceptions. yours is a definition from the outside reliant on news items, court cases, youtube vids and shitty attitudes you have dealt with pertaining to the fotl community. where my view is more that of an insider who has met many good people in the movement and given greater aknowledgement to the good points of the fotl as a movement.

due to our alternate points of view we may never arrive at a concrete definition other than some folks in the freedom thing call themselves freeman on the land and some dont.

sorry i cant be more helpful on this.
peace,
ninj

Don't piss up my back and tell me its raining

Re: A Short History of Robert Menard

from bmxninja357 on 04/18/2015 06:25 PM

so this is a good start and i appreciate the straight forward way the prior post has been written. as many know i would count rob as a friend. i have not seen him in some time now  but i'm sure i will sooner or later.

different than some others here i have hung out with rob in person. i actually find him to be very genuine and easy to get along with. i will concede that many projects have not went well. and i cannot verify why things go south. i can say getting freemen to work together is often like hearding cats. everyone has their own idea and no one wants to be in charge or to have anyone in charge of them. this makes a complete project very hard to accomplish. and many want it done for them.

rob himself has a lot of good ideas that are well meaning. but there is some i find sort of silly. i dont belive theres a free ride in life. and i dont belive in magic words. for a time i entertained the ideas of such things. but time and actual study of source material has brought me to my current belifes.

i know rob is currently between a rock and a hard place but if he gets the chance i wish him to know he is welcome to come here and debate/study/hang out with us all. i will assure all here im not letting things turn into a wind assisted pissing contest. no one can speak for rob better than himself. the floor is his if he wishes.

peace,
ninj

Don't piss up my back and tell me its raining

Re: The Basic Definition

from wserra on 04/18/2015 01:16 PM

Thanks for your prompt answer, ninj.  As for my less-than-prompt reply - well, I've been really busy.  Saturday morning is the first chance I've had.  BTW, it seems your board is somewhat misconfigured.  The "reply quote" function yields only a blank reply space, the "quote" button on the toolbar pulls up a url box, and normal BBcodes [x] [/x] don't work.  Maybe I'm missing something.

Anyway, to the definition of FOTL.  First of all, what you wrote is not a definition.  You instead ascribe certain characteristics to those whom you view as Freemen.  You wrote:

the difference, i belive should (note i said should) lay in the activism. the willingness to not stand by when others are abused by any of the arms of government (or anyone else). the willingness to find a issue and attempt to make changes so it is no longer an issue. presenting actual evidence researched from valid sources so as to change the current situation for a more free, peaceful, fair and just society.

Those attributes also characterize Dr. King, Gandhi, Mandela, depending on your point of view William Lyon Mackenzie, and many, many others less well known.  I like to think it characterizes me.  It does not characterize Menard et al, those commonly regarded as "Freemen".  Nothing says that you must accept the common definition.  But you haven't provided one of your own.

there are many things that require taking a stand. the catch is many are unwilling or unable to do that. the world does a good job at keeping folks in general either to ignorant or to scared to even try to effect any change or even draw attention to the problem. i belive the original intent was for the freeman on the land movement to be the ones willing to empower others to stand up against a seemingly endless string of legal, political, financial, military, etc. systems that are not good for the people in general; many also restricting what can be seen as basic rights and freedoms.

Exactly the same comment.  All of what you wrote applies to many, many people whom no one would view as FOTLs.  You could, I suppose, respond that you do so view them.  If you do, you have your own (quite idiosyncratic) definition of the term.  What differentiates FOTLs from simply those people who are committed to social justice?  Idiosyncratic definitions are not much use to common discussion.  After all, I can insist that "apple" really means "Volkswagen", but few people will then understand that by "orchard" I mean "car dealership".

thanks for the question!

And thanks for your answer.

"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
- David Hume

A Short History of Robert Menard

from QuatloosShill on 04/18/2015 07:34 AM

Ninja also asked me to do something on Robert Arthur Menard. Unlike Jeffery with his Santos history I won't be giving the "full story" for three reasons;

1 - A comprehensive story on Menard would be book length, he's been a leading Freeman figure for a long time.

2 - I'm not all that familiar with his early years. I started following him a few years back.

3 - He's tried everything. AFV, 96 Is Your Fix, Freeman Valley, Notice of Understanding and Claim of Right, the Common Law International Right to Travel. Opting out of laws by denying consent to be governed, private police forces, the whole Freeman gamut.

But I'll relate where he is now and more or less how he got there. As a general statement Menard was, for a long time, one of Canada's leading Freemen. He has had great influence on the Freeman movement leading the way in a lot of areas. However he has gone into a serious decine of influence because of all his past failures and is currently hiding out from an arrest warrant.

A large part of his initial success was picking up on the use of You Tube videos and being able to give public presentations to fairly large audiences. Back in 2008 he was relatively slim, active, dynamic, an impressive speaker;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB4o3afM11w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5cvEOpcSK0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oYhlasKrfY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2j2rMj-QPs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gGaFo7u50g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAVmGROLrpE

He proposed a whole menu of Freeman remedies in this series, none new to him, but well presented. As late as 2010 he still looked ok and had a lucid, dynamic speaking style;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnnI5eZnXYk

However the years wore heavily on him and by two years ago he was starting to look terrible with a presentation style to match;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojqMUW134lo

Everything he's promoted, everything he's tried, has failed. Without exception. One idea which gained some traction was Freedom Valley, a paradise where the Freemen could run their own society away from the interference of corrupting laws and courts. This is how Rob himself explained it. In his grandiose dreams Freeman Valley was but a part of a greater plan. From thinkfreeforums.org;

The purpose of this thread is to inform and invite and not to debate the merits of the plan or the need for a society. If it is not your cup of tea, then simply refrain from commenting or opining and refrain from spitting in something that others do want. If the idea of having to pay fees to be a member of a society does not appeal to you then simply do not join. If the concept of needing resources to accomplish a plan is offensive to you then feel free to show how things can be bought without anything to exchange. If you feel that you should have an equal say in how this thing is started (not run) then I invite you to do so by formulating your own plan and then we can compare yours to mine and see where there are similarities and potential problems. Also recognize there are those who do not want to see this happen and will seek to undermine it all the while trying to sound like they support the idea of freedom. The fact is however, we need 1000 people to make it happen, and if they all want an equal say, it will never happen. This will be one of the first weapons those who seek to derail will use. Even though they have not created the plan, or one of their own, they will claim that because they do not have a say in some aspect that it is a dictatorship and thus they will try to create division using those tools.

Once the society is up and running then it will be governed democratically in much the same way as existing professional associations are. Until then however, although input will be sought and hoped for, the path I have defined will not be open to debate. How we take the steps on that path will be.

This is a Five Step Plan and will be revealed in full publicly when the accompanying movie and paperwork are completed.

Step One: (Actually Step #2 – you will see what I mean when I release the movie)

Phase One

Establish the Framework for a Global Society of Freemen

One Thousand people from across Canada will be required to set up this society for the millions who will join.

There will be a fee of $240/year to join.

The first thousand people will also have to bring $1000 each, totaling $1M in order to establish a strong and effective society. This can be in the form of Promissory Notes or cash, with the latter preferred, and a limit on how many can use the former. Simple truth is I have a plan and am confident of its success, but resources are needed and unless the people who want a change are willing to ante up, there will not be a change.

A full and complete Business Plan and Strategy will be available to those interested in joining. Those who have in the past denigrated the idea of a society of Freemen are not invited to join or to even comment, as I will be keeping an eye out for those whose only intent is to derail this society at its inception.

Members will eventually enjoy all the following:

Identification Cards – This will be the proof which rests on them.

Notary Public- We will have our own Notary Publics to witness the NUI and COR process.

Education – The Freeman Society Canada will provide educational and support services on line and through regular meetings.

Laissez Passer – Just like a Passport, except for Freemen who are traveling without intent to engage in commerce in the host country.

Support – A 1 800 number with recording and witness and legal support available 24/7

Banking – Working with experts in the field, we will set up a bank and credit union for the safe and secure storage and use of individual wealth.

Freeman Traveler and PACLIP – This is the Blue Plate Traveler with a system of identification using our own numbers and plates joined with PACLIP "Private Automobile Collision Liability Insurance Program"

Canadian Common Corps of Peace Officers [C3PO] – We will be engaging our own Peace Officers drawn from our own members and from existing peace officers.

De Jure Courts – We will convene our own courts within which all are equal and charges may be confidently brought against existing courts and their agents and officers and within which the criminal code is enforced against them and disputes between us may be judicially settled.

Freeman Valley – We will be claiming and seizing a valley within which those who desire can join a working and stable community. This will act as an example for others in all commonwealth countries can emulate.

All of these will be established and created and run by the first 1000 members after they form into groups for those purposes.

PhaseTwo

This involves co-ordinating internationally with other groups in order to establish a global society of Freemen with various national chapters, securing acceptance of the various documents and securing the security of our persons as a group.

If you are interested in joining this movement send an email to [email protected]//

and express the following.

1.Name and contact information.

2.Your abilities and assets. (Administration, Public Relations, Editing the Society News Letter, operating our Gazette, maintaining an on line presence and forum, opening the Freeman School, teaching, support, construction, raising awareness and capital, operating our cafes, etc)

3.What aspect of the plan you would like to be a part of.

4.Whether you can bring funds or only a Promissory Note.

5.If you want to be a part of the Valley.

6.Whether you are willing to be a Peace Officer.

7.Anything else you think is pertinent.

Happy New Year!

Rob

A lot of Menard's major themes are here;

Notary Public - We will have our own Notary Publics to witness the NUI and COR process.

Freeman Traveler and PACLIP – This is the Blue Plate Traveler with a system of identification using our own numbers and plates joined with PACLIP "Private Automobile Collision Liability Insurance Program"

Canadian Common Corps of Peace Officers [C3PO] – We will be engaging our own Peace Officers drawn from our own members and from existing peace officers.

De Jure Courts – We will convene our own courts within which all are equal and charges may be confidently brought against existing courts and their agents and officers and within which the criminal code is enforced against them and disputes between us may be judicially settled.

Freeman Valley – We will be claiming and seizing a valley within which those who desire can join a working and stable community. This will act as an example for others in all commonwealth countries can emulate.

It was, as will be related later in this posting, the C3PO that came back to bite Rob in the ass but, when it was riding high, the idea even had its own website;

http://www.c3po.ca/

As an incidental note the website is now owned by a Quatloosian who acquired it after Rob abandoned it.

The problem with this plan, as with all of Menard's projects, was the execution. He was great on ideas but didn't have the drive or resolution to pursue them in the face of having to make an effort. He has never, to my knowledge, held gainful employment apart from some rumors about a stint in the army. As far as I can tell he's led a very marginal life for the past few year. His only significant income in the last decade (apart from possible speakers fees) was from an inheritance from his father which now seems to be gone.

Possibly Menard's greatest video hit was "Bursting Bubbles of Government Deception";

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eabYMa0Ht40

Billed as;

Divergentfilms & Elizabeth Anne Elaine Society

http://www.divergentfilms.com

Robert-Arthur:Menard

gives a seminar on The Illusion of the Person, what Words in Law mean,

Consent, Acceptance, Honor & Dishonour, Bills of Exchange, and more!

Highly relavent information about just how The Powers That Be govern over us, and what we can do about.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b6e_1343429200

Note the Elizabeth Anne Elaine Society in the above credits. His early formative moment seems to have been apparently fathering a child by an underage girl and having both removed from his life in 2000 or 2001. He wrote this about the experience;

http://www.angelfire.com/rebellion/elizabeth/

Elizabeth Anne Elaine was the name of his child. This story was covered, at least to some extent, in Quatloos;

http://www.quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=9578&p=162087&hilit=+Elizabeth+Anne+Elaine+Society+#p162087

One venture he seemed to put some effort into but which ended up as a significant failure was his attempt at a scam whereby you could get stuff free by carrying your own Freeman free money credit card. He called this the Association of Canadian Consumer Purchasers. Don't bother clicking on the consumerpurchasers website links below. The website, like all of Menard's dreams, is dead.

I'll quote an April 2013 entry on Quatloos to explain it;

http://www.quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewtopic.php?t=9326#p157575

However, the entire 'consumer purchase' thing hits big time last year when Robert-Arthur: Menard begins to aggressively promote the concept, and specifically launches this website:

The Association of Canadian Consumer Purchases (ACCP): http://consumerpurchasers.ca/

Menard explains that the Bills of Exchange Act and the Bank of Canada Act, when combined, allow one to make purchases and pay for them with the mechanism reported by wserra: see http://consumerpurchasers.ca/?page_id=269

But rather than you go through the trouble of actually doing that, Menard will himself do the heavy lifting, and implement the 'consumer purchase' scheme for you. All you have to do is pay him a certain sum of cash, and he will issue you a kind of debit-card like thing which will have much more value than your initial processing fee. With your 'Menard-Card' you can't just buy anything though, only certain 'necessaries': http://consumerpurchasers.ca/?page_id=35 Definitely no video games.

Oh, and it's super-good for artists: http://consumerpurchasers.ca/?page_id=273

This concept and website appear in 2012. According to persons posting in long-standing JREF forum thread on Menard, the woman who actually had set up the ACCP website for Menard, and who was administering the scheme was contacted by forum members. She then realized this was no more than a scam, and bailed. The result is the ACCP website has remained static since that time.

However, Menard is a persistent individual, and has once more returned to this concept in the last couple months. He is now promoting what he calls "ACCP Phase 2" on his Facebook webpage (http://www.facebook.com/robert.menard.52) and Association of Canadian Consumer Purchasers user group (http://www.facebook.com/groups/457133764361174/).

$100, and you're in!

Menard's promotional hook is explained on his Facebook page. He claims to have gone to a Vancouver restaurant, ordered and eaten a meal, then attempted to pay by writing Consumer Purchase on his bill. The police are called and Menard is arrested. However, after a first court appearance (where Menard invokes the power of his magic common law peace officer badge), the charges are subsequently stayed. And Menard has a letter from the Crown to prove it: http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-a ... 7039_o.jpg

Naturally, Menard announces that this result means that the Consumer Purchase scheme works, the authorities are afraid to allow a trial so that the result will be generally known, and that this stay is, in fact, a legal precedent.

And now yesterday he posts this:

So excited! Big meeting on Tuesday with Van City Credit Union concerning the Consumer Purchase Association! Happy thoughts, well wishes and prayers gleefully accepted!

My prediction is that Menard will gladly take those $100 sign-up fees, but somehow the Menard Cards will never be delivered.

SMS Möwe

However this fizzled out when people helping him realized it was just a scam.

The one he was really big on promoting, the one his heart really seemed to be in, was the Canadian Common Corps Of Peace Officers, his private peace officer's force commonly known as C3PO. He claimed that anyone could start a peace officer force that had the same legal status as regular police forces. He envisioned Freemen across Canada organizing their own quasi-police forces as a counter-point to the real police forces and using them to enforce their own common laws court laws. He actually persuaded people, to their cost, that this was actually legitimate. Here in Vancouver David Lange, David Smith, Alexander Ream, and Andrew Simpson all went around for a while pretending to be peace officers and flashing their C3PO badges until they were arrested, charged with personating peace officers, and convicted. The whole story is here;

http://www.quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=9388

Menard promptly threw them under the bus by essentially claiming it was their own fault for not paying attention to him and doing it right.

Up to this point Rob's only real brushes with the law had been trying to scam a restaurant meal with his own payment note and being convicted of riding Skytrain without a ticket as part of his right to travel campaign. Trivial stuff. Then he made the classic mistake of believing his own propaganda. In the summer of 2014 in Toronto the car he was a passenger in was stopped by the police for a traffic violation. Rob flashed his C3PO badge around and claimed he was a peace officer just like the police at the scene. For whatever reason he was not arrested and he was sent on his way which induced him to make two major errors;

1 - He did a number of videos bragging about how he'd gotten away with claming to be a peace officer. Note that using his C3PO badge was not even necessary. He was just the passenger and had committed no offense.

2 - He told the police he was a peace officer in a few more incidents over the summer.

So in September 2014 they charged him. And he kept it very quiet and didn't tell anyone. The first public information on this came out in when I revealed the charges on Quatloos in January 2015. I'd not commented much about Menard in Quatloos to this point but I had gotten interested because he'd filed something to do with a legal action at the Federal court of Canada but he was very cagey what it was about. He showed a glimpse of the Statement of Claim on his Facebook page but no details. So I got a copy from the court registry;

http://www.mediafire.com/view/ieai8etgakhbkum/Menard%20-%20FC%20Statement%20of%20Claim.pdf

The lawsuit was nonsense, a demand that the Federal Court of Canada make an order that the C3PO forces were legitimate peace officers. Dead on arrival but it got me wondering why he'd done it. It seemed to be his idea of a defense to the Toronto charges, a declaration of proof from the court that he really was a peace officer. It was tossed out without a hearing.

On March 12th I posted a copies of some Toronto court documents regarding Menard;

http://www.mediafire.com/view/93ijcfb1a6ekpi3/Menard%20-%20OCJ%20personation%20file.pdf

http://www.quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=10492&start=280#p185324

These showed that he was facing four separate charges of personating a peace officer as a result of three different incidents. He was on the run after an arrest warrant was issued because of his failure to show up for his court hearings. And that, up to now, is where the story remains on his charges. Still outstanding but Menard still in hiding.

One further thing. He tried, probably in a desperate attempt to get some cash, to revive the ACCP. He tried to keep it secret by allowing only a super-secret list of suckers to participate but one of them broke the news on the Tender For Law Facebook page and we picked up on it. I reported on it here in early February;

http://www.quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=10492&start=100#p183888

Since Menard was on the run he couldn't put the same care and attention to it that he would if he had a fixed locale and the scheme seems to have collapsed.

So Menard is now almost totally discredited, broke, and on the run from criminal charges. Ironically the same charges the Vancouver Freemen were convicted under after following Menard's C3PO bluster. Something of a fitting end for our great Guru.

Re: Kevin Annett. wearing collars and taking dollars.

from Jeffrey on 04/18/2015 01:39 AM

Yeah don't bother unless you're cooking or doing laundry and need something to listen in the background.

Very little to no content.

I think there won't be any Clifford news until the trial.

Re: Kevin Annett. wearing collars and taking dollars.

from bmxninja357 on 04/18/2015 01:25 AM

i take it you must mean one of these:

Radio Free Kanata on April 12, 2015 Guests, Ryan Gable and Dean Clifford
Radio Free Kanata on April 5, 2015 Guests, Ryan Gable and Dean Clifford
Radio Free Kanata on March 29, 2015 Guests, Ryan Gable and Dean Clifford
Radio Free Kanata on March 22, 2015 Guests, Ryan Gable, Theresa Harrison and Dean Clifford
from: http://www.bbsradio.com/radiofreekanata

i havent had the few hours of my life to sacrifice at the alter of stupid and fraud. but if i find some tie i will give them a listen. it seems they must be up to something so will write some on it when i sit through them. i find both parties painful on my brain but it must be done to sink to the bottom get to the bottom of whats going on.

hanging with annett is a new low for clifford. he is going to get covered in the kind of dirt that just dont wash off.

peace,
ninj

Don't piss up my back and tell me its raining

Re: Kevin Annett. wearing collars and taking dollars.

from Jeffrey on 04/17/2015 11:40 PM

You didn't listen to the Annett / Clifford post-bail interview?

The talk is all "divestment" (they really love that word), which seems to be a recognition that Freeman remedies do not work and simultaneously an attempt by them to create their own society outside of Canadian Jurisdiction but still on Canadian soil.

That seems to signal to me an attempt at making some type of Freeman compound.

Re: Kevin Annett. wearing collars and taking dollars.

from bmxninja357 on 04/17/2015 10:24 PM

i do not belive kevin has the parts. shadows are his friend. but i could see some crazy religous nuts with a sov cit bent doing the dirty work.

from one of kevins sites:

Arrest the Convicted War Criminals on our Land!
Posted on April 7, 2015

Official Communique from The Provisional Council of the Republic of Kanata
Winnipeg

 

read the item: http://itccs.org/2015/04/07/arrest-the-convicted-war-criminals-on-our-land/

 

i think its safe to say kevin is promoting violence to the freedom movement with special effort towards deans followers.

peace,

ninj

Don't piss up my back and tell me its raining

Re: Kevin Annett. wearing collars and taking dollars.

from Jeffrey on 04/17/2015 10:00 PM

I guess what I'm asking is not so much what the rhetoric is, but what does Annett's statement mean in real world terms.

Are they going to try to get some land and have some type of WACO or Ruby Ridge stand off with the cops?